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Copper Plumbing - Viega ProPress vs. Soldered 

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Apr 2, 2021

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Comments 100   
TheSPAZZANATER
I use both methods. The best thing about the pro press is that it takes less skill, I've seen a lot of copper failures due to improper saldering.
riakata
riakata Day ago
Pressure test without the o-ring to see how well the metal to metal seal works.
Jon Watkins
Jon Watkins 2 days ago
In a hot water recirculation system the life of the copper pipe is cut in half. It might make sense to use k on the hot and m on the cold. There is no way the copper is fused. An inner mandrel and a whole lot more force required. The O ring is the seal.
al mai
al mai 6 days ago
Lastly, and a huge point. You can easily mess up a sweated fitting, which will lead to premature repairs.
grinchyface
grinchyface 8 days ago
why would anyone select copper over PEX? it makes no sense to me, and your brief explanation isn't based in science
Beijing Biden
Beijing Biden 9 days ago
I want access to all plumbing lived in home were the waterlines were outside wall and the electric love it. I could repair anything they put them behind molding you could not tell.
throttle bottle
throttle bottle 10 days ago
he got it hot enough to nearly braze, may as well have grabbed the silfos rod :))
Ajith Antony
Ajith Antony 10 days ago
Recent propress fail, any thoughts? us-first.info/player/video/prCmZoKfZICVbZ8.html
Jeff Worst
Jeff Worst 12 days ago
'"Even the thinner M will go like 50 years..." Nope. My development was done in M like 30 years ago and every home has pinhole leaks. Go at least L in thickness. May also depend on your water. Water here in Los Angeles is very hard.
ck m
ck m 12 days ago
My house has copper that is 90 years old and my previous house had 110 year old copper.... Not sure either PEX or those fittings would last that long, but if I had to choose, I'd probably go with PEX as it is quieter and you can do home runs with far fewer fittings.
Matthew A
Matthew A 12 days ago
This is such a waste of money. I'm a master plumber and I would never plumb my house in all propress and type L, clearly he didn't pay for this. Propress definitely has its place but not for a new build. This is the problem with all these videos and techniques. Its unrealistic for the average person to be able to do any of this in their own house.
David B
David B 13 days ago
Clint knows how to wear a mask. Matt.... not so much
E Marbury
E Marbury 13 days ago
De-burring copper is not necessary at all. No way I would put that ace hardware looking stuff in someone’s house and walk away from it, without feeling in the back of my head that it’s going to come back to bite me in my ass someday.
BaldTheBuilder
BaldTheBuilder 13 days ago
you use Viega, you use pex , coper has no benefit over pex
MrItsthething
MrItsthething 14 days ago
You can't really believe anything he says about this stuff since it's a sponsored video. I want an honest review, not this BS.
jose jimenez
jose jimenez 14 days ago
What about tight spaces? Can the press tool get into a tight space?example:up against a stud in a corner.
Oak Hollow Life
Oak Hollow Life 14 days ago
I don't think the ProPress fuses the copper. That would take a lot of heat to do that (think welding torch). I suspect what it does is create a press-fit joint that is water tight under pressure.
cpad007
cpad007 14 days ago
Didn't see any cost of Viega fitting over sweat. I'm sure it costs more but maybe made up in labor savings.
Aepek
Aepek 14 days ago
11:12 also, gonna remember that yep, need that hot work permit and watching and waiting afterwards.....which does take time and money. Do like using ProPress (and Milwaukee also makes a ProPress tool and accepts Ridgid heads, which is great), along with ProPEX tools for plumbing a house. Another nice thing about ProPress and ProPEX, if water is in the pipe, the tool and pressing the pipes still work, unlike, trying to do solder on a copper pipe with water in the pipe, just doesn’t work that well (and if have a water leak, can easily press a new fitting in with a “wet” pipe using a Press tool; which is nice). The future of plumbing continues to evolve 👍🏻👍🏻, and anything that makes jobs easier, saving time and money, but with keeping the “strength and dependability” of no leaks for decades....is very nice, imo. Cheers😊
Black Pine
Black Pine 15 days ago
Let’s see the test of time........per ...progress 100 years from now........
Chs Han
Chs Han 15 days ago
So a year ago you told us that PEX was the only way to go. You did all your freeze tests and PEX kicked coppers ass every time. Now because someone gave you some free stuff its the best??? What the heck? Oh yea and once its together you have to cut it all out to replace it. And how easy is PEX to fix? Come on Matt.
Champion Plumbing
Champion Plumbing 15 days ago
Great video Matt!
Peter Allen
Peter Allen 15 days ago
Matt when plumbing someone else's house: "PEX is the future and is perfect" Matt when plumbing his own house: "I want all copper, and it can't be the cheap thin stuff. Who can I find to sponsor me so I can install their copper for free?"
jedrinck
jedrinck 15 days ago
Here in Germany, the Viega sanpress stainless steel system is very common and has been in use for a long time. Copper is still used but mainly for refrigerant lines. Multilayer pipes are used where possible to save cost, but they are nothing like the garden hose looking stuff found in many American homes. Needless to say, plumbing is expensive here...
Boris Mospan
Boris Mospan 15 days ago
flux or solder?
Phiro NoSurvivors
Phiro NoSurvivors 15 days ago
I'm trying to understand why you would use Cooper over Pex.. A video on that would be great! You do a great job with the videos
George Siddens II
George Siddens II 15 days ago
pro-press is trash. you are lying to people saying it "fuses the copper together." your actually smashing/crimping a rubber washer onto the piece of pipe. if i was gonna use rubber, pressed fittings, i would just use sharkbite/at least you can take them apart and they dont weaken the integrity of the pipe
Ian
Ian 16 days ago
Pro press has one major weakness, the O ring, over time, it will break down, there's no avoiding that, I get that there is a rating, but if there is a minor defect to that O ring, composition wise, not a good time. I'll take a soldered joint any day of the week over pro press, a skilled plumber can solder multiple joints almost or as quickly as pressing, all while keep costs significantly less.
Drewdoestrucks
Drewdoestrucks 16 days ago
Lead is a natural material that’s mined from the earth, and so is asbestos. I’m not sure that’s necessarily the most sound logic I’ve heard from you, but I love your videos.
Ravana
Ravana 16 days ago
There is another threading system available in copper which you dont need this hi tech tool and can do with a normal plumbing tools.
Elian
Elian 16 days ago
Annnnd... Pex for the win 👍
J PR
J PR 17 days ago
Interesting that copper plumbing is seemingly a novel system in the Austin area - assume that is with production builders and tract homes? I’ve lived in Dallas since 2010, owning a 6k sqft home that was built in 2001 - having just upgraded 6 full bathrooms, kitchen, home theater, outdoor kitchen and exterior/garage plumbing, all plumbing runs were original copper tubing - this is our 9th custom built home over the last 27yrs, and all prior homes, (New England and Midwest locations, as well as Atlanta GA and RTP-NC), had copper...
t Le
t Le 17 days ago
this looks better than sweating for minisplit refrigerant lines bc sweating could introduce contaminate particles if nitrogen isnt run through pipes. could you do freeze test again?
so cal pirates
so cal pirates 17 days ago
Lol just when I finished a complete bathroom remodel at my own house.
james bills
james bills 17 days ago
Saw a guy almost get killed when an end cap blew off while on a 120 PSI test because the Installer forgot to press the cap on. Guy was In a man lift and the cap hit him In the side of the face and knocked his safety glasses off. Was bleeding heavily and I helped to get the bleeding stopped before EMS arrived. If his head would have been two Inches more to the left he would have died.
Urban Adventures
Urban Adventures 17 days ago
Not even twice as fast maybe a few seconds faster an 14 times the cost.
Michael Bala
Michael Bala 17 days ago
you loved pex a and were going to do your house in that with uponor fittings, now you flipped and went with l grade copper, why the flip flop. i like copper too but i would only use it at the hot water heater by code and coming into a undercabinet because i like the look. even without soldering and i love pro press what about scaling inside your pipes over time. that will not happen with pex.
myadler
myadler 17 days ago
You claim that the EPDM seal is not necessary and is just a backup. Prove it. Take it out, press it, and pressurize the fitting. If it doesn't leak Ill eat my socks.
Adam Liddell
Adam Liddell 17 days ago
not a new system!!!, and compare it to pex systems for water hammer and installation time!
Matt Risinger
Matt Risinger 17 days ago
Good points. I think PEX wins on those two
Dave Hudson
Dave Hudson 17 days ago
Always preferred copper piping, installed it through the whole house. I guess we have minerals in our water that don’t like copper. After about 20 years we started getting pin holes in the pipes, started with the hot water lines. Ended up switching to Pex pipe, straight lengths preferred over rolls. Didn’t have time to redo the whole house, so replaced sections as needed, or when I had time to change a section. Started using Shark Bite fittings, pricey, but easy to join Copper to Pex, or to CVC. No special tools required. Huge time savings.
Dave Hudson
Dave Hudson 17 days ago
Another note, Shark Bite fittings can be taken apart, and are reusable!
0m3n
0m3n 17 days ago
Damn that's awesome.
Abel Casanova
Abel Casanova 17 days ago
These are two completely different systems how is it a fair comparison? Lol I do like the Viega system though.
Chris Ludwig
Chris Ludwig 17 days ago
What do those fittings cost?
Synos001
Synos001 17 days ago
Matt, why did you choose not to go with pex or something other than copper?
Gianni Zhivago
Gianni Zhivago 17 days ago
If you desire you can always get long sweep copper sweat fittings.
Charles Wilson
Charles Wilson 17 days ago
For the bargain price of 3000.00 . They need to loosen up the upfront expense of this and it will take hold but being captive to 3000.00 tools it is to boutique,
James Urzykowski
James Urzykowski 18 days ago
I had to replace two water faucets for our new washing machine. I went to a local box store and bought two new faucets. After I returned home I decided to call a plumber. I had sweated copper before but my supplies hadn’t been used in years. The plumber used the system you demonstrated and it took less than an hour. He even used the faucets I bought for the project to save me money. When he gave me the bill I felt he was robbing me. I should mention he came out the same day I called arriving before 5:00pm. I will look into the cost of the system you used.
DMCollins1977
DMCollins1977 18 days ago
Been using it for two years perfect for service plumbing because you can’t always get the moisture out and you can’t sweat it
Slathian
Slathian 18 days ago
So why is this house using Copper? Seems like a $2-3,000 waste of metal along with the more difficulty for the plumber which ends up costing $10-15,000. Also add that, Copper corrodes / pits in many cities due to water, older systems used lead, and unless you are running 250C+ steam through the lines it's a waste.
Joe Sanders
Joe Sanders 18 days ago
Copper bad, PEX good. When the big Texas freeze came, PEX stood the test, copper pipes, not so much. Back in Virginia, copper would always break, PEX never. I took all the green copper out of my boat and replaced it with corosion free PEX.
david britton
david britton 18 days ago
Very informative, love watching your videos
Battle Ax
Battle Ax 18 days ago
Propress all day.
Jacob Summer
Jacob Summer 18 days ago
Pro press always leaks on hot water lines, should solder when you can.
20somthingrealestate
Flux fuses pipes together? Wow that's a new one
James S
James S 16 days ago
I know right. Tinned flux to solder okay... But fuse is a far stretch.... Fusing plumbing parts would be like welding the parts together.
D T
D T 18 days ago
When you can't solder. It'll be someone else's probelm when those fittings leak anyway🤣
Monkey 75
Monkey 75 18 days ago
My boss has 5 trucks on the road and 5 machines. For service plumbers it is a super time saver. Yes fittings are more expensive, but my hour as a certified licenced plumber is expensive as well. Quality of fitting is much better type K copper as you pointed out. Disadvantages sweat fitting can be removed and replaced but I haven't seen a pin hole in a propress fitting yet! I have been using this system for over 10 years. The guys I work with make fun of me saying I have forgotten how to sweat I use the machine so often!
Bert Bergers
Bert Bergers 18 days ago
Matt, sorry to say but you are way out of bounds with this sales person pitch here. Copper to copper is tight after the pressfitting, but never fused! The o ring is not in the waterstream correct, but it still is the main seal! When soldering, you need to be obnoxiously uncarefull where and how long you point your flame to stand a chance to get a 2x4 to burn, so yes be carefull, no to making people afraid of a little flame. On the timing story: you would always solder an entire fitting at a time: so 2 on an elbow or straight, 3 on a tee. I bet you timing would stay within 50% or less. And you never ever spoke on the major turn-back for pro-press, the über expensive couplings and machine compared to the cheap solder ones and a bottle of gas, some flux and a roll of solderwire. Even pricing in the hotpads/fireblanket for sensitive areas, soldering is way cheaper. So the customer expense will be higher or equal, you just save some time. Your channel would be miles better if you’d be more neutral and open on all factors for the stuff you are pitching.
alex banks
alex banks 18 days ago
Great video
Terry Beaver
Terry Beaver 18 days ago
That was very interesting.
Chris Champagne
Chris Champagne 18 days ago
I just wish the tool wasn’t $2000 (Milwaukee m12)
Ian Douglas
Ian Douglas 18 days ago
Hope buddy doesent solder like that normally
Andrew Alexander
Andrew Alexander 18 days ago
If sweep ells are important to you, you can get them for sweated fittings.
Andrew Alexander
Andrew Alexander 18 days ago
Uhhh, the copper is not fused in a sweated joint. "Sweating" is soldering, not welding. And it's the solder whcih makes the connection, not the "flux". the flux is only there to make etch the copper and make the solder flow and 'wet" the copper for good adhesion.
Andrew Alexander
Andrew Alexander 18 days ago
"This (copper) is a natural material, it's mined from the earth .... there's nothing to leach into your water" Uhhh, lead also is a natural material mined from the earth, but it's not harmless and it can leach into your water. Not to say copper is bad, personally I'm a fan of copper, but the things you're saying are BS.
Douglas Thompson
Douglas Thompson 18 days ago
Will Viega certify it for use in shop air systems? Seems a natural.
Douglas Thompson
Douglas Thompson 18 days ago
You don't clean the Vega fittings before pressing?
Take ABow
Take ABow 18 days ago
Wow! Viega comes from germany and i live 5 Miles next to the town where it is produced. Awesome products
Jon Miguel
Jon Miguel 18 days ago
No chemicals? Processing copper ore creates huge amounts of toxic waste. Just look at the Berkeley Pit in Butte Montana.
James Worth
James Worth 18 days ago
I would also recommend that you look at the UK system of Yorkshire capillary fittings with the solder already embedded in the fitting. Simple to use and I would suspect way stronger than any compression system. Yorkshire fittings have been around for decades and I have used them in home plumbing with no problems. And on top of that, no very expensive crimping tool. Just a torch, flux and glass cloth or wire brush.
Paul Hill
Paul Hill 18 days ago
Compression fittings are now almost universal in commercial buildings in the UK, totally due to no hot work allowed , the cost of the tool is less than the result of a fire. I have changed over to Tectite fittings, no hot work, can be used on wet pipes, quick, and no expensive tool required.
James Worth
James Worth 18 days ago
why is he wearing a face mask and you are not! Not particularly covid-19 savvy are you!
Maurice Upton
Maurice Upton 18 days ago
We sweat with silphos not lead based solder.
Andrew Alexander
Andrew Alexander 18 days ago
Where is that? Your channel has some videos from New Zealand, is that where you are? In the US silphos is used for refrigeration coolant lines, but not for domestic water or hydronic heat lines. THose are almost always soldered. However lead based solder is not used on domestic water lines, there are various lead-free solder alloys available.
Ryan McCormick
Ryan McCormick 18 days ago
I've always preferred soldered cooper over anything else! This video was most likely to get a new Ridgid crimping tool for free. 🤔💩😒🙄 Matt Risinger has many sponsor problems, they being all of his supplier's, he cannot do honest reviews without backlash. He did 1 bad generator install video and press was forced to remove it! 😳🤦🏻‍♂️ What else is he forced to say or not say to keep the free products coming? 🤔🤷🏻‍♂️ I prefer the approach Linus Tech Tips US-first channel has gone, they have sponsors from Ridge Wallet, Dollar Shave Club, Nord VPN, etc. Linus can say what ever he wants about AMD, Intel, Apple, Google, Nvidia, etc. He does not have to tell the viewers exactly which statements are his opinions or what are paid sponsor claims about the production as supplied by the manufacturer. He can say whatever he wants about the products without jeopardizing his integrity or sponsor income revenue because he said something negative about a manufacturer in the tech industry. If any US-firstr wants to me taken seriously they can't be sponsored by the same manufacturers that provides them supplies, or it's just a circle jerk of; cash, materials, and videos. We the viewers don't know; is this an honest professional review, or a video to get free materials & tools for his own use. Matt needs those unrelated sponsors like Nord VPN, and Dollar Shave Club to pay his bills, only then can he get away from being a corporate shill. Or watch US-first AvE videos, he couldn't care less if Ridgid gave him a tool to review on US-first, he doesn't even list the millions of subscribers anymore on his account (doesn't care), if a tool or product is junk all his viewers would know, because he paid for that Ridgid tool, the viewers know it's an honest review on US-first, that took manufacturer didn't have any opertuniry to put cash in the box, pre-test that particular tool, add accessories, or make sure the night shift didn't a junk version, supprise real review! Matt Risinger needs to divest his US-first "Build Show" from the suppliers that send him free stuff. It's currently just a cute channel, all mashed potatoes, no meat. Might as well get some vegan meat sponsors! LOL 😆😂🤣
tommy Colucci
tommy Colucci 18 days ago
Ok so voice recognition dose work so well. I’m not saying you can spin it like a shark bite but if it is crooked you can move it, hence it is not fussing it together. But you should press it again. Maybe your not strong enough . Also plumbers don’t use Brillo its called scotch brite and a real plumber will not use mapp gas to solder we use an acetylene torch with the proper tip. This miss information pisses me off , you make me feel like I’m an internet hater, I’m not! I think I’m going to start doing videos myself so people can get accurate information on line. I will stick to things i have experience with and do proper research on new things. Sorry.
Yeah Yeah
Yeah Yeah 18 days ago
M isn't allowed for domestic water where im from
Don MacAskill
Don MacAskill 18 days ago
Make sure your town doesn't add sodium hydroxide to the water. Your copper won't last 20 years if they do.
MrTexasDan
MrTexasDan 18 days ago
More uber-expensive Euro-ware. Matt loves it, as long as he gets it for free.
ArodjR1 Xplane
ArodjR1 Xplane 18 days ago
Propress is not fusing the copper together. I feel propress is not much different than sharkbite.
SandyFunnies
SandyFunnies 18 days ago
Copper is great until you get pin hole leaks in your pipes. Ever had a wet spot on a wall and could not figure out why?. Had a friend in Florida that to completely replumb his whole house all at once because of multiple pin hole leaks. You need to monitor the water ph and watch for green staining in your toilets, sinks, tubs, and showers. The green means the copper is leaching. My house has a soda ash injector system to raise the ph because the water is so acidic in my area. I can always tell when the setting is not quite right and I need to test the ph.
TheGooglySmoog
TheGooglySmoog 19 days ago
My HVAC guy scoffed at pro press for no other reason then he just didn’t want to learn something new.
VTdarkangel
VTdarkangel 17 days ago
I can't speak for him, but in commercial refrigeration, I've seen leaks in relatively new press fit connections. I've also seen many 70 year old brazes that are still leak tight. Press fit is great for water, but I won't use it in refrigeration.
P F
P F 19 days ago
Awesome! Just recently bought the Ridgid RP241 unit to do some plumbing upgrades in my house. Renovating my three bathrooms and kitchen. Can also use for my side jobs too so totally worth the money.
Tom Waller
Tom Waller 19 days ago
Solder, flux makes the solder adhere.
Ryan Bard
Ryan Bard 19 days ago
🤔
sean peterson
sean peterson 19 days ago
My only pro press failures in 14 years are on heating systems with glycol added(protection for water coils in attic). One other was outside wall hose bib burst, but boiler was down. Type L is the only way to go. Had to edit, the glycol level was too high on first mentioned failures.
Bill
Bill 19 days ago
I am just getting ready to redo the plumbing under under my kitchen sink and i went online to look up the price of parts i would need and the 3/4 inch 90 degree elbow was $45. I stopped right there as this simple update would become a major financial outlay just for the fittings and i have no idea what the press would cost. Sweating fittings is not a problem for me but in the closed in space under the sink with a garbage disposal, dish washer connection and outside faucet connection i was thinking i could avoid sweating fittings in that confined space but the cost will force me to use sweat fittings.
Nathan88ism
Nathan88ism 18 days ago
@Yeah Yeah probably for a 10 pack
Yeah Yeah
Yeah Yeah 18 days ago
The tooling is the spendy part. 90 degree elbows are like $6 list and can be had for $3-$4. Not sure who is selling for $45. Slap them.
OzarksWildman
OzarksWildman 19 days ago
I can see repairs being much easier with that crimping system. You can’t sweat copper with any amount of water in the lines.
mtacoustic1
mtacoustic1 19 days ago
How will this system hold up in acid water areas; like New England. I've had copper pipes that looked perfectly fine on the outside, but corroded through from the inside. The 'O' ring could also be a weak point. Any corrosion inside the pipe will ruin the seal; and a bad 'O' ring is also problematical. How many years will the system hold up? Time will tell!
Yeah Yeah
Yeah Yeah 18 days ago
Copper is used in the majority of commercial buildings in New England. Most allow press style fittings such as Propress and Gruvlok
John Henderson
John Henderson 19 days ago
I use a rigid compact propress it is worth the money and speeds the job up No more waiting for plumbers, some building I work in wont let you in without one
Mars Alseides
Mars Alseides 19 days ago
Matt just wait till you c mega press for steel. O yea Matt don't forget the jaws snap after about 300 or more presses
John Henderson
John Henderson 19 days ago
Propress is not new I have been using it for 12 years
Karl Niemeyer
Karl Niemeyer 19 days ago
Failed to mention that the tool needs to be calibrated after so many uses not that any homeowner would ever use it that much but if you are going to use it often it does need to be calibrated from time to time
BigDog Outdoors
BigDog Outdoors 19 days ago
What about vibration? Do they ever work loose?
PeaceSouljer 1
PeaceSouljer 1 19 days ago
Copper these days contains a large percentage of recycled copper which contains nasty and unknown contaminants. The expense time and limited lifetime of copper piping makes it obsolete compared to PEX. I am done with copper unless the client wants to pay the double to triple expense and I no longer have to worry about fires. No more CU for me thanks
JW Blount
JW Blount 19 days ago
But I saw a ton of the fittings pull apart in the great free we had a month ago. Besides it has a 25 year warranty, just like the shark bites fittings, and just like pex (expansion or crimp). So running copper or pex is just from choice.
R33LGAMING
R33LGAMING 19 days ago
I have been thought to use flux only on the pipe and not inside the fittings, and not to wipe it off the excess with my fingers to than clean my fingers on my trousers. Flux is an aggressive chemical so just remember before you have it on your fingers than touching your itchy eyes or nose 😉
Andrew Alexander
Andrew Alexander 18 days ago
Yeah, if you flux the inside of the fitting, the end of the pipe scrapes it off when inserted and pushes it into the fitting. Now you have blobs of flux inside your water system.
A.S
A.S 19 days ago
We've been using this for water and gas for 10 years now. No issues whatsoever.
avtechguy
avtechguy 19 days ago
Should have mentioned to identify L Hard and M Medium is the color of the stripe on the side L is Blue and M is Red
Erik Meyle
Erik Meyle 19 days ago
Flux cleans the fitting not seal it.solder does.Not a Plumber
smonroeh
smonroeh 19 days ago
Copper pipes are great, except when things freeze
windaddiction
windaddiction 19 days ago
Mined from the earth lol just like lead
Andrew Alexander
Andrew Alexander 18 days ago
And mercury, and all petroleum based products.
PK
PK 19 days ago
Matt, I enjoy you videos but I need to tell you this isn't your finest moment. I come at this from the perspective of an old chemical engineer. In the intro you tried to make copper sound extremely benign, almost saint like. It is not. Copper is toxic and it can form extremely toxic organometallic compounds. One does not typically dig pure copper from the ground. Usually it is mined as a sulfate which is them smelted at high heat in a furnace driving off very nasty sulfur compounds. That copper pipe also contains trace amounts of other metals including lead and silver which can leach into your drinking water...not good. However much more lead would leach from your sweated fittings. So your crimped fittings are indeed a big improvement over sweated fittings. You totally missed this point, the one truly valid point, for using crimped copper fittings. I also think they are more expensive. You are correct that the EPDM in the crimped fitting will last a very long time because it is not in the flow path. But the EPDM is a seal, in fact it IS THE PRIMARY SEAL. Proof is as easy as assembling one connection without the EPDM seal. Is copper a bad choice, no. Is there any particular advantage over PEX for residential plumbing, probably not.
Andrew Alexander
Andrew Alexander 18 days ago
For the record, lead based solder hasn't been used on domestic water systems in the US since (I think) 1974. Plumbing solders are various alloys of tin antimony and silver (and probably a few other metals)
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